Is there a very large gap in the way stand-up grappling is taught in the west? [kinda long]

TLDR: after a bit of creeping around Reddit, I get the feeling that wrestling the way it's taught in the US has some shortcomings compared to other foreign styles of wrestling. Is it possible that we see BJJ as the more 'fluid' and 'technical' art because the wrestling we're used to is a more physical, less fluid version of the wrestling taught in say, Iran, Dagestan, etc? Is there not a very large hole in the way of standup grappling (for BJJ/sub grappling but also MMA) that can be filled by looking at wrestling styles outside the US?

This is kinda long, and isn't really BJJ-centric; in fact it's more sub grappling or MMA-centric because of the focus on takedowns, which pulling guard in BJJ negates.

After a few weeks of wondering why my no gi standup consists exclusively of shooting doubles, I ran into this video today. It's a video of Iranian wrestler Hassan Yazdani's dogfight tactics, but if you go down /u/dps831's channel you'll see how the guy's built an interesting game off the underhook (knee/ankle picks, sliding by or shooting to catch the underhook).

And.. it looked pretty fucking technical. And I was wondering why I hear a lot about the following in class, or /r/bjj or /r/wrestling:

• armdrags

• double legs

• 324352 ways to finish a single leg

• collar ties and snapdowns

...but not so much things like (say) options and entire games off an underhook. In fact I can't even start to list things I don't hear about because, well.. I don't hear about them.

But I can't deny.. it looked really technical, i.e. lower risk and higher reward than shooting 3-5 consecutive doubles. So I started to wonder whether there was more to wrestling than the wrestling I'm familiar with.

The good people at /r/wrestling had a few things to say:

On american wrestling mentality:

I’ve heard from American wrestlers who’ve wrestled internationally that Russians, Middle Eastern wrestlers, etc, tend to think Americans are “too rough”. I remember hearing an anecdote from one international guy about when he began wrestling a match with a Russian, he collar tied and started snapping to open a window, and the Russian started giving him weird looks because he was being so aggressive. Not to take anything away from other nations, I just think America naturally has that “grinding” mentality. Like a wolf chasing your tail at every moment and it’s do or die on the mat.(https://www.reddit.com/r/wrestling/comments/89v914/what_do_non_american_wrestlers_think_of_american/dwtwivz/)

On other foreign styles:

Americans tend to have the best conditioning and take a high volume of shots. Americans tend to lack defense and Par Terre. Americans keep high pace in handfighting and use collar ties often.

Most Eastern European wrestlers are imports from Dagestan and have similar wrestling styles. They are good at defense, Par Terre, 4 point moves, and wrestling through positions. Eastern Europeans tend to only take shots when they know they can score. Wrestlers from Dagestan sometimes lack good conditioning.

Cubans are the most athletic wrestlers. Their shot frequency is somewhere between Americans and Russians. Cubans tend to be well rounded in technique.

It is hard to completely nail down the Irainin style. In my opinion Iranians tend to keep a high pace yet not take risky shots like Americans. As noted already they tend to use underhooks frequently. They are very good at mat wrestling.(https://www.reddit.com/r/wrestling/comments/8q9az3/wrestling_style_of_different_nations/e0iq3k5/)

On the Dagestani style specifically (and "quartering")

Sure. Think of your body as quartered off. Your left arm is one. Right arm 2. Same as your legs. Left left leg 3 and right leg 4. The whole basis of the Russian 2 on 1 is dominating a quarter of the body. Once that is controlled you go for the next. So that's why a 2 on 1 fluidly goes from arm to single and take down. They have had that signature strategy for lord knows how long.(https://www.reddit.com/r/wrestling/comments/90ci60/how_would_one_describe_the_russiandagestani_style/e2sbkgl/)

Unfortunately all I could find is 3 threads, but that doesn't even include Sambo's jacket insanity or any indigenous styles.

So I realize this isn't strictly about BJJ, but more grappling as a whole. What I'm getting at is:

Could there be much more to explore technically in integrating styles that already exist (e.g. in other countries' wrestling metagames), compared to going even deeper into niche rabbitholes (like the bolo or leglock metagames)? Again, probably less relevant for BJJ, but more for say MMA where going to the ground isn't always a good idea.

All the anecdotes above were from a pure wrestling perspective. Is it possible that the sub grappling community is learning much faster from each other than the organised wrestling community? (I'm leaning towards no, but I could be wrong.)

Has anyone on /r/bjj ever done sub grappling or wrestling in the Soviet bloc/Iran/Iraq/Dagestan? What is the biggest thing missing in the way standup is taught in 'the west'?

Submitted October 11, 2019 at 04:42PM by michachu https://ift.tt/2Vwb8qQ