MMore1023
7/23/96
WHEN A CULTURAL EVENT IS RUN BY THOSE WHO DO NOT UNDERSTAND THE CULTURE Several years ago, in Agoura, there was a Renaissance faire, steeped in the culture of the times, filled with colorful street pageants, entertainers, warriors, jugglers, wenches, craftsmen nobles and peasants. When you walked in the front gate, you had the magical feeling of being transported through time to the middle of the 1500 s. The language, the mannerisms, and every aspect of the culture of the times was recreated as well as possible to make the customer feel like he or she was really there.
But like all things, this changed. It moved from Agoura, a land steeped in magic and memories, and moved far away to San Bernadino. But something else happened also. No more was the culture of the times important, nor was the flavor of the performers, their interactions on the streets with the customers. People, and many of them in charge, found aspects of this culture and period in time offense and distasteful, and politically incorrect. It had to change. The wenches were either cleaned up, or removed. Gone was the brawling and the color of the street entertainment. Gone was the bawdy flavor of the times, something that was very real in the Renaissance, but was not forbidden at the Faire.
In time, more restrictions fell into play. One could no longer touch a customer, or even interact with them. No longer could groups go out into the streets, and through their actions and theatrics, relive the flavor of the times. In effect, the Faire stopped being the Renaissance. It was a business, not a cultural revival. Money was more important than history and culture and custom. The lusty times of the Renaissance turned into a G rated corruption, a politically correct version of somebody s idea of history. Well, it was neither. It became a farce, and sham, and something not worthy to be called a Renaissance Faire for it no longer had any resemblance to those times. The Faire has become a lovely costumed crafts faire and swap-meet, with nice little dioramas depicting different nations behind their bars, and a few well structured plays that are tailored as not to offend ANYONE.
That is not why I started doing Faires. That is not why I worked the old Agoura Faire when it was grand, great, and worth participating in, as well as coming to as a customer. Now, I wouldn t spend the money to go. I d have more fun at Disneyland, and there, I expect what I get.
This is what happens when people who either do not understand the culture or the history, or are more interested in money than culture and learning, control something like a renaissance faire. This is what happens when ignorance stamps its mark on a culture it doesn t understand. Money is more important than learning, history and culture. Profit is more important than people, and in the name of that profit, the customers are being defrauded into thinking they are attending a Renaissance Faire. They are not. Once, long ago, yes. Now, no. That faire has long since died, and it is long past time for this new corruption and farce to die also.
I call upon all of you out there who participate in this travesty to stop. You are lying to yourself, and you are deceiving the public. Let this fade quietly into the night. Another phoenix will rise from the ashes, and with luck, this new birth will be pure, clean, and as it should be, a truly Renaissance Faire, not a politically correct G rated farce.
Michael More MMor...@aol.com
Click here to Reply
Roths
7/24/96
On Tue, 23 Jul 1996 the...@micro.com wrote:
In the interest of bandwidth I clipped the original post. I do want to say that I agree with every word of it. I quit doing faire in Kansas City as early as 1989 for one reason--boredom. Over the years '85 to '89 the faire freedoms among actors were progressively cut and more and more restrictions were imposed. After Minnesota Twins took over, the faire went down the toilet. Now it's to the point
Please, what do you mean by the Minnesota Twins taking over?
where interaction between actors and customers is nonexistent. The faire is collapsing under it's own elephantine weight--and don't think customers aren't aware of it. For the past 3 years KCRenFest has had dwindling numbers. When KC's faire started out it was an all volunteer fund raiser for the Kansas City Art Institute. Now it is a strictly for profit faire with the attitude of "get in, rape the customer for as much money as you can possibly get and when the market collapses get the h--l out. I follow this ng for sentimental reasons. My costume still hangs in my closet. God willing, I'll get it out again someday. Donna
"It has become appallingly clear that our technology has surpassed our humanity" Albert Einstein
"Sometimes being a bitch is all a woman has to hold on to." Delores Claiborne by Stephen King
***************** THOUGHT FOR THE YEAR *******************
** If All the Gods of the universe are as ** ** powerful as we say they are, **
** then why do we mock one as we bow to another? **
***************** ren...@cloudnet.com *******************
Ron + Tonya Clark
7/24/96 Other recipients: mmor...@aol.com
<big snip>
I call upon all of you out there who participate in this travesty to stop. You are lying to yourself, and you are deceiving the public. Let this fade quietly into the night. Another phoenix will rise from the ashes, and with luck, this new birth will be pure, clean, and as it should be, a truly Renaissance Faire, not a politically correct G rated farce.
Michael More MMor...@aol.com Michael, Boy, are trying to beat my title of making the most enemies on the net :)? But to the point. The changes in faires only reflect the changes in society as a whole. Thanks to left AND right wing nuts, America has been turned on its ear. We now live in a sicking PC, sue happy land, if you just now noticed, welcome. I am going on my 11th season, and I too have seen the changes. But, for the most part, they are not motivated by greed. They are a attempt to cover some butts. Okay, say you allow unrehersed street fights, between two untrained bozzos (which most are -untrained that is). OOPS, a customer gets hit (even ever so slightly). Guess what, law suit big time! Example - I was in a foot chase, through down town LA, after a robbery suspect. My radio hand set gets knocked from my shoulder and hits a lady in the back. Guess what, she sued! Second point. You have a stage act that while very funny is also very lewd. Now you have yuppy mommy, with three year old brat in tow, who decides to let her spawn sit through the ENTIRE show. Now she goes and complains that it offended her and soiled her sweet cherubs mind. Bingo, show is pulled!
When one person complains, admin can be justified feeling that there are most likely a hundred more who were offended that did not complain.
In a sick and perverted world where the victom is the criminal and nobody needs to feel responsible for their actions, you are only spotting the symtoms. And you are far from giving a cure. (Shooting all of the political extremists might be a start! Bill, Hilery, Dole, Buchanon, Reno, Boxer, and Feinstien - Bang, Bang, Bang, Bang, Bang, Bang, Bang, - a good start to a better world.)
Ron Clark
the...@micro.com
7/24/96
Minnesota Twins is Minnesota Festivals, Inc I can understand in a way why the art institute allowed them to take over. The faire had grown to the point where it was beyond the capacity of the institute's board of directors to handle it. However I have very real problems with a for-profit company using unpaid volunteers providing their own costuming and making money off of it, even if the institute still gets a portion of the proceeds. You can bet the lion's share is going to Minnesota. I also have problems with the fact that they still bill the festival as "A Benefit for the Kansas City Art Institute". This, too me, is false advertising and misleading to the public. Donna After Minnesota Twins
took over, the faire went down the toilet. Now it's to the point
Please, what do you mean by the Minnesota Twins taking over?
"It has become appallingly clear that our technology has surpassed our humanity" Albert Einstein
M. Legare, etc. 7/24/96
So then mmor...@aol.com (MMore1023) said: Actually, he said pretty much the same thing as dozens of other people have said. I'll summarize:
1) the RPFN and RPFS faires are no longer fun 2) the RPFN and RPFS faires are no longer historical 3) the RPFN and RPFS faires are no longer steeped in history and background and are now being run by a bunch of money-hungry know-nothings who are RUINING THE FAIRE EXPERIENCE FOR EVERYONE! AIE!
ahem...
and
4) everyone should STOP working the RPFS and RPFN faires so that they (the faires) will die and new and better faires will take their place.
To which I say
Grow Up.
I will elaborate:
Things are changing. Guilds come and go, faire sites change, and the only constant around here appears to be the unlimited resources people have to grouse and complain and whinge and bitch about how Faire Isn't Fun Anymore. Now, I understand the need to vent about the iniquities of the system, of the shortcomings of the management and of the difference between the here and now and the rose-colored memories of the past, BUT ENOUGH ALREADY.
When plowing through alt.fairs.renaissance I am consistantly smote with at least ten posts complaining about how rotten things are in California now that the RPFN and RPFS are being run by an Evil Corporate Entity.
Guilds have been cut, things have been moved around, and things just aren't fun anymore.
Wah.
Well, folks, if it ain't fun, don't do it. Maybe I'm just a dupe, but I've always seen the Ren Faires to be a heck of a fine way to have fun and get some up-front experience in improv with a constantly changing audience... no more, no less. I admire the hardy souls who can eke out a living (or at least a subsistence) working the circuit, but for me it will always be a hobby, and as soon as it's not fun anymore - or not fun ENOUGH - I'll find something else to occupy my time.
As for the suggestion that we all stop working the RPFN and RPFS faires so that they will die and something New and Good and Pure will take it's place - I doubt it. For every bitter ex-rennie there are DOZENS of bright, young, energetic people out there waiting in line to apply and audition. Don't believe me? Go out to the PAD office on the first day of registrations - the line snakes to the parking lot. Maybe it's a cynical thing to say, but damn near every one of us is replaceable, and, while the Faire that would occur with these new people working it wouldn't be the same Faire that would occur with us, it would still be the Faire.
I'm sorry that you feel so down on the big ren faires in California. There are plenty of smaller faires in CA that you can still go to and hopefully have a good time. However, you aren't accomplishing ANYTHING by whinging about how good is USED to be and how bad it is NOW.
if you want to change things, then DO something about it. Start your own Faire, talk with REC people, get a booth, by a Friends of Living History membership and some REC stock and use that as a lever to get your ideas heard.
DO something STOP whinging.
Anchor, rather tired of it all [mle...@wetware.com]
Roths
7/24/96
On Wed, 24 Jul 1996 the...@micro.com wrote:
Minnesota Twins is Minnesota Festivals, Inc I can understand in a way why the art institute allowed them to take over. The faire had grown to the point where it was beyond the capacity of the institute's board of directors to handle it. However I have very real problems with a for-profit company using unpaid volunteers providing their own costuming and making money off of it, even if the institute still gets a portion of the proceeds. You can bet the lion's share is going to Minnesota. I also have problems with the fact that they still bill the festival as "A Benefit for the Kansas City Art Institute". This, too me, is false advertising and misleading to the public. Donna
After Minnesota Twins
took over, the faire went down the toilet. Now it's to the point
Please, what do you mean by the Minnesota Twins taking over? Thank you for explaining. However, I must correct you on terminolgy.
The corporation name is Mid-America Festivals, Inc. not Minnesota Festivals. As far as participants being volunteer and providing their own costuming, I do believe that most Faires are the same. I have been a street actor with the Minnesota Renaissance Festival for 8 years now and it is true that a $0 contract is the norm for 1st year participants and you must provide your own costuming. However, if you can show them that you are entertaining the public, you may receive "money" in following years. It may not be much, but then the majority of us are not in it for the money. Any money received is just an added and appreciated bonus. We do it for the love of the time, the family we have found there, and for the sense of pride that comes from patrons laughing, applauding and smiling for a job well-done. As far as costuming goes, our costume shop will help any and all with patterns, advice and lists of people who can sew your costume for a fee. I have been making my own costuming for these 8 years and have now built up a reputation for quality clothing. I am now approached by others for advice and have made costumes for several other actors. One of my clients had her costume checked by our costume director last night. And when the director heard who made the clothing, she said that she knew my work and checking in was unnecessary! This is the kind of personal pride that no amount of money can replace. I love what I am doing and feel VERY PRIVILEGED that I can be a part of Minnesota Renaissance Festival and Mid-America Festivals!
The friends and contacts I have made because of this opportunity is worth its weight in gold. It has enriched my previous mundane life beyond compare and has even improved my job-seeking skills. And now because of our society being saturated with computers, I have made friends across the country and even around the world that share a love for the Renaissance Faire experience, costuming and acting. Without the "free" education that I received through becoming a participant with MRF, I know that I would be one of those that only wishes he/she could be a part of it. If it is your wish to become a well-known, well-paid actor, this avenue can be a wonderful stepping stone. Just take a look at Penn and Teller...they got their start with an act at...yes...the Minnesota Renaissance Festival! Keep your dreams and goals, drop the pay me, give me attitudes and you will achieve what you deserve with work. Above all, remember this:
To be a star, you must shine your own light, follow you own path, and don't worry about the darkness, for that is when stars shine brightest!
Thank you to all who share my beliefs and keep the spirit of the Renaissance Faire!
Blessed Be, Sherry Roth aka Rosalily Bud at Minnesota Renaissance Festival
"Sometimes being a bitch is all a woman has to hold on to." Delores Claiborne by Stephen King
***************** THOUGHT FOR THE YEAR *******************
** If All the Gods of the universe are as ** ** powerful as we say they are, **
** then why do we mock one as we bow to another? **
***************** ren...@cloudnet.com *******************
Carl Heinz
7/25/96
Maybe we ought to examine our own attitudes as participants.
I don't think the typical customer has a real awareness that it's no longer LHC, but REC.
Are our attitudes coloring our level of participation with the customers?
I agree that the customers are feeling a reduced amount of participant interaction with them, and this, I also believe, keeps some of them away--not as much magic.
But is it REC, or is it us?
Carl Heinz St Cuthberts Guild
Lynn Gustafson
7/25/96
In article <4t5vk0$a...@numbers.wetware.com> mle...@wetware.com (M. Legare, etc.) writes:
From: mle...@wetware.com (M. Legare, etc.) Subject: re: When Profits are more important than culture and history Date: 24 Jul 1996 20:04:16 GMT - show quoted text - - show quoted text - - show quoted text - ahem...
and
- show quoted text - >To which I say
Grow Up.
I will elaborate:
- show quoted text -
- show quoted text - >Wah.
I'm just a dupe, but I've always seen the Ren Faires to be a heck of a fine way to have fun and get some up-front experience in improv with a constantly changing audience... no more, no less. I admire the hardy souls who can eke out a living (or at least a subsistence) working the circuit, but for me it will always be a hobby, and as soon as it's not fun anymore - or not fun ENOUGH - I'll find something else to occupy my time. As for the suggestion that we all stop working the RPFN and RPFS faires so that they will die and something New and Good and Pure will take it's place - I doubt it. For every bitter ex-rennie there are DOZENS of bright, young, energetic people out there waiting in line to apply and audition. Don't believe me? Go out to the PAD office on the first day of registrations - the line snakes to the parking lot. Maybe it's a cynical thing to say, but damn near every one of us is replaceable, and,
DO something STOP whinging.
Anchor, rather tired of it all [mle...@wetware.com] Here! Here! I find it amazing that the same people who for years complained because Phylis had no business sense are now complaining just as loudly that the Faire is run too much like a business! They say that the faire has lost its magic. I say that they have stopped bringing their magic to faire. In over two decades of faire work, I never fail to feel the magic of the faire. If you can watch Billy Scudder leap to the top of main gate to great the crowds for openning or the children learning the art of defence in maypole commons or any other of dozens of 'magic moments' without feeling it, the fault in not in the stars, but in yourself. Has it occured to you that in order to find the magic, you must bring the magic. I am out there on the streets playing, maybe you are sitting backstage gripping. Come out and join us and maybe you'll find the magic again.
Lynn Gustafson aka Peggy Poplet Mistress St. Cuthbert's
Macushla
7/26/96
Carl Heinz (cfh...@ix.netcom.com) wrote: : Are our attitudes coloring our level of participation with the customers?
: I agree that the customers are feeling a reduced amount of participant : interaction with them, and this, I also believe, keeps some of them away--not as : much magic. : But is it REC, or is it us? : St Cuthberts Guild Wow. That's a really good question, and one I don't know how to answer. In Chicago, regular theatre productions that are "off-loop" rarely pay anything if at all. I get paid more doing community theatre in the 'burbs that I ever do in Chicago. And on stage, you don't have a choice to not play your part, feel like it or not. Its clear in that situation who the lack of "magic" is going to reflect on--it'll reflect on me. But at faire??? Where the "magick" is so spread out and ambiguous as to its origin? Excellent thread, Carl! Nothing like a controversial topic to wake you up in the a.m. Later, bye love Brenda
"Life is always either a feather bed or a tightrope. Give me the tightrope!" ----"Never have I been a calm, blue sea. I have always been a storm."---- Rowan the Red macu...@rci.ripco.com MMMPMMA B*B
Ben Haines
7/26/96
In article 31F68...@micro.com, the...@micro.com says:
Minnesota Twins is Minnesota Festivals, Inc I can understand in a way why the art institute allowed them to take over. The faire had grown to the point where it was beyond the capacity of the institute's board of directors to handle it. However I have very real problems with a for-profit company using unpaid volunteers providing their own costuming and making money off of it, even if the institute still gets a portion of the proceeds. You can bet the lion's share is going to Minnesota. I also have problems with the fact that they still bill the festival as "A Benefit for the Kansas City Art Institute". This, too me, is false advertising and misleading to the public. Donna I moved out of the KC area about 4 years ago and this is the first I've heard of a sellout. It is truly a shame! However, it had to come sooner or later didn't it? A Not-for-Profit faire put on by a culturally sound organization was far too good to be true. Regarding the work situation, I had planned to work the Bristol Ren Faire in WI this summer (signed up for a guild and everything) but when they sent me their "terms of employment" in the mail I was astounded. In a very official legal contract, here's the abbreviated version of what they told me: I was agreeing to, in return for attending their few workshop sessions
A. Work the entire summer without pay. B. Supply my own costume, housing, travel, etc. C. Not miss even a single day of faire under penalty of legal repercussions. D. Not hold the REC responsible for anything that may happen to me at the Faire. (and this was the killer) E. Agree to be COMPLETELY responsible for any legal or economic actions taken against the REC due to my actions, including payment of any lawyer fees, fines, etc. that may be needed!
Therefore, if, during one of my mandatory weekends at the Faire, my REC-workshop-taught act should happen to offend a patron, and that patron then demanded their money back, I'd have to pay them out of MY pocket. And if they decided to sue the REC or Bristol, I'd have to not only pay the settlement, but cover the REC's lawyer fees as well!
So, basically, this company is making pure profit from admissions, adding it to the rent gained from merchants, and completely eliminating any responsibility for what goes on at their faire!
But what's a rennie to do, huh? You certainly can't start your own Faire. (Actually, if we all got together... :) )
Thouroughly disillusioned, -Ben Haines coy...@kiwi.pyrotechnics.com
Linette Young
7/26/96
On 26 Jul 1996, Ben Haines wrote: In a very official legal contract, here's the
abbreviated version of what they told me: I was agreeing to, in return for attending their few workshop sessions
A. Work the entire summer without pay. B. Supply my own costume, housing, travel, etc. C. Not miss even a single day of faire under penalty of legal repercussions. D. Not hold the REC responsible for anything that may happen to me at the Faire. (and this was the killer) E. Agree to be COMPLETELY responsible for any legal or economic actions taken against the REC due to my actions, including payment of any lawyer fees, fines, etc. that may be needed!
Therefore, if, during one of my mandatory weekends at the Faire, my REC-workshop-taught act should happen to offend a patron, and that patron then demanded their money back, I'd have to pay them out of MY pocket. And if they decided to sue the REC or Bristol, I'd have to not only pay the settlement, but cover the REC's lawyer fees as well!
So, basically, this company is making pure profit from admissions, adding it to the rent gained from merchants, and completely eliminating any responsibility for what goes on at their faire!
But what's a rennie to do, huh? You certainly can't start your own Faire. (Actually, if we all got together... :) )
Well how about this. Boycott all REC owned faires. Tell your friends and acquaintences who ask you about faire this year why you are boycotting the faire. Tell people who pay admission about the atrocious "employment" tactics of REC. In these times of corporate greed and rapaciousness, downsizing, we need to stand together in the faire and mundane world and let them know "we're mad as hell, and we're not taking it any more."
Good luck to you.....we're battling the beast here in California.
Linette
Hendy Lund
7/26/96
Carl Heinz wrote:
Maybe we ought to examine our own attitudes as participants. <snip>
I agree that the customers are feeling a reduced amount of participant interaction with them, and this, I also believe, keeps some of them away--not as much magic.
But is it REC, or is it us? I'm not a member of any guild - just a regular attendee of RPFN for the past 8 years. MY observation is that there's been a decline in enthusiasm and energy over the past few whiles. I attributed it to the "where is Faire going to be next year?" question... seems there's more going on.
Eight years ago I attended RPFN for the first time - in shorts and a tank top. I was chastized by the Puritans, teased by others about the "wondrous strange clothes" and "new Italian fashions" I was wearing... I loved it. Even though I was just an attendee, I was made to feel like a participant.
Today, were I to go in street clothes again (no chance, but!), I'd feel like I was walking through a live-action museum... an observer only. The only people who would talk to me are vendors - what a surprise, huh?
Someone said it's turned into a costumed crafts fair... a pretty accurate analysis, despite the stages scattered around.
I'd love to see enthusiasm and happiness in the faces of those working Faire again. I haven't a clue what political headaches you're operating under, but can you put it away for the hours that we, your audience/customers, are watching? Pretend you're having fun?
Thanks for listening,
- Hendy
QuEsToR527
7/26/96
I have been attending the RPFS for .... well since the late 1960's and there has been such a drastic change over the years, if first started when LHC and the RPF were trying to bring in Alcohol, then when they were rasing money for Agoura and BlackPoint. Now again some more cahnges have been made. I did enjoy the faire this past spring and last year at BlackPoint, but the "magic" or "special" part of the faire is gone. maybe somehow it can be regained, but I believe this faire has run its course and will die a late death
Questor
" Our task is not to eliminate conflict, struggle and doubt. But to learn to live in the midst of them, thru the light of faith."
MMore1023
7/26/96 When Profits are more important than cult
Ben, That is exactly what many people have done. But more to the point of reality, here in California we have many, and I mean many, small one weekend faires cropping up all over. I say this to those people doing the large fairs. STOP. There are enough small fairs for you to attend, as participants.
There is an old Irish word for this. It is called BOYCOTT. But it will only work when enough participants get fed up to do something about it. Still, if these very poor facsimilies of renaissance fairs (actually they are not renaissance, but a "G" rated, politically correct disneyesque fantasy of the renaissance) die out, as they should, the phoenix would rise from the ashes, and somebody would start a new multi-weekend fair to replace it. And that person, if they are wise, would recapture what was lost once upon a time.
Michael More Guildmaster, The Septs of Leix (Irish Noble) Sunland, California MMor...@aol.com
M. Legare, etc. 7/26/96
So then cfh...@ix.netcom.com (Carl Heinz) said: ] Maybe we ought to examine our own attitudes as participants.
] ] I don't think the typical customer has a real awareness that it's no longer ] LHC, but REC. ] ] Are our attitudes coloring our level of participation with the customers? ]
I think you may have hit the nail on the head here, Carl... the customers haven't been through workshops, rehearsals, the after-hours stuff, and so on. Neither have they been privy to the behind-the-scenes action, so from their end, things aren't really changing as much. Most of what they see is that booths get moved around, and maybe some of the personnel changes.
] I agree that the customers are feeling a reduced amount of participant
] interaction with them, and this, I also believe, keeps some of them away--not ] as much magic. ] ... and my question has always been if this is because guilds are getting cut, or if it's a matter of the people who are out there interacting with customers.
I fear that in a lot of cases, "customer interaction" has consisted of participants yelling at customers to "make way" for this procession or that procession, which may (I say may) have had some impact on what got cut or what got moved... when you see processions having to dodge around other processions on a constant basis (the Irish dodging the Scots, the Lord Mayor's dodging the Irish, Danse Macabre dodging the Green Man who's trying to get around Horn Dance who's trying not to get trampled by the Mongers who are coming back from their pagent late because they had to hold off while Queen's Prod came through)... this is interaction?
My take: less progresses, more hanging about in the street and actually talking to people. TO, not AT. We get maybe 20 people to do this who haven't been, and I betcha the impression will be of more interaction rather than less.
] But is it REC, or is it us? ] ] Carl Heinz ] St Cuthberts Guild ]
It's both. The only problem is, we're the ones the customers see. So, if we want to improve Faire, we gotta do it on our end, one customer at a time.
Nkor [mle...@wetware.com]
William Morris
7/27/96
A friend of mine has shared this axiom with me, and I will share it with you: Renaissance Festivals are to history what art is to Etch-A-Sketch. -Frank Blair
Eventually yours,
William Morris Solace the Gravedigger Master of Assasins and Member of the Thieve's Guilde Kansas City Renaissance Festival
- Sometimes I calls a spade a spade, sometimes I calls it a fuckin' shovel...
DzM 7/28/96
In article <4td9ga$5...@sky.net>, wmo...@sky.net (William Morris) wrote:
Renaissance Festivals are to history what art is to Etch-A-Sketch. -Frank Blair Err. Not to be nit-picky or anything, but wouldn't that make more sense as:
Ren Faires are to History what Etch-A-Sketch is to art.
Just a thought... DzM
DzM | Twenty-fucking-five to one | My gambling days are done http://140.249.8.212 | I bet all my money on a Bottle-of-Smoke | And my horse won | -The Pogues
lea bob 7/29/96 When Profits are more important than cult
mmor...@aol.com (MMore1023) wrote:
weekend faires cropping up all over. I say this to those people doing the large fairs. STOP. There are enough small fairs for you to attend, as participants.
excuse me?There is an old Irish word for this. It is called BOYCOTT. But it will only work when enough participants get fed up to do something about it. EXCUSE ME?
Still, if these very poor facsimilies of renaissance fairs (actually they are not renaissance, but a "G" rated, politically correct disneyesque fantasy of the renaissance) die out, as they should, the phoenix would rise from the ashes, and somebody would start a new multi-weekend fair to replace it. And that person, if they are wise, would recapture what was lost once upon a time. wait a minute. let me get this straight. YOU have decided that RPFN/S are no longer fun? YOU have decided that they are inaccurate representations of history? YOU have decided that I (and anyone else reading this) should STOP?
who died and made you god? or better yet, just WHO are you and WHY should i give a flip?
sure, the small faires are fun. especially if you like intimate audiences. especially if you like the pseudo-sca experience of travelling for miles and miles each weekend, taking all your own furniture and props with you. however, for a family - like mine- with a relatively small car, noble personas (we just don't look right sitting on the ground) and a child, that whole camping thing fast loses its luster.
but the GREATEST problem i have with your condescending attitude is that you seem to feel that you have the right to tell the rest of the world what to do - boycott the fairs so that they will die and something wonderful and pure will arise from the ashes. excuse me for a moment... BWAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHA ahem. the pissing and moaning i'm hearing about faire is the same pissing and moaning i've heard for years, with the additional twist of Evil Corporation instead of Absentminded Phyllis and Her Family.
when you get right down to it, there is a core group of us who will continue to be at faire, do our jobs, interact with the customers & give them a great time. we're out there for the show, not the drugs or the parties. and i suspect that the Evil Corporation will keep us on because we're basically businesslike people. excuse me if i don't follow you.
Michael More Guildmaster, The Septs of Leix (Irish Noble) Sunland, California MMor...@aol.com lea bob Catherine Hastings, Countess of Huntingdon RPFN
Margo Anderson
7/30/96 When Profits are more important than cult
wait a minute. let me get this straight. YOU have decided that RPFN/S are no longer fun? YOU have decided that they are inaccurate representations of history? YOU have decided that I (and anyone else reading this) should STOP? SNIP
who died and made you god? or better yet, just WHO are you and WHY should i give a flip? SNIP
we're out there for the show, not the drugs or the parties. and i suspect that the Evil Corporation will keep us on because we're basically businesslike people. excuse me if i don't follow you.
lea bob Catherine Hastings, Countess of Huntingdon RPFNHEAR, HEAR! Yay Lea!
MMore1023
7/30/96 When Profits are more important than cult
Lea, And I will not address you in character, for I do not speak in character. I am not alone, but only voice the opinion of many. And I do mean many. Just look at the long list of people who have deserted the larger faires over the last 8 years and you will know of what I speak.
And as for your sarcastic crack about who died and made me God? Well, who died and made you one? I believe I have a right to an opinion, and no person on this planet will deny that right, not even you.
Enjoy your faire, and do me a favor. If you love it soo much, stay there, and let the rest of us have fun where we are with out your anger and rage disrupting it.
MMor...@aol.com (Michael Colin More)
Wailer at the Gates of Dawn 7/30/96 When Profits are more important than cult This is typical of all online conversations.
Unknown Person A: This sucks. Person B: If it sucks then do this. Person C: FUCK YOU PERSON B FOR TRYING TO TELL ME WHAT TO DO!!!!! Person B: Go to hell. Person C: NO FUCK YOU! Person C.5: YEAH FUCK YOU! =exeunt=
Do us ALL a favor and just shut up. Take your piss and vinegar to email. If you hate RPFN, then you should stop going. If you like RPFN then keep going. People are always bitter about change, and sometimes they're right to be.
Personally, if this year winds up sucking, then I may bail. I can't say that I like the changes being made to the faire. I think the rec center shop is tacky. I think REC does a poor job of diseminating information in a way that doesn't alienate its workers. I've lived through lots of layoffs and restructuring, but that doesn't make it more pleasant -- it just makes me more objective about how people may be feeling, and the lack of sensitivity being displayed.
We'll see. I'll summon the energy and see how I feel at the end of the run. I'll do my damnedest not to let pure pessimism overtake me.
But anyone who says that this is EASY has obviously never watched or participated in a company getting back to work following layoffs. Its ugly. Its slow. REC could be doing more to ease this process.
The Wailer at the Gates of Dawn | ban...@resort.com | Just who ARE you calling a FROOFROO Head? | | DoD#0667 "Just a friend of the beast." | ban...@cats.UCSC.EDU | 2,3,5,7,13,17,19,31,61,89,107,127,521,607....| |
lea bob 7/30/96 When Profits are more important than cult - show quoted text - - show quoted text -
HEAR, HEAR! Yay Lea!
margo - thanks for your public support. i've just replied to a private email from this fellow accusing me of anger, rage & intolerance (hello pot? this is kettle - you're black) towards him and small faires.
frankly, what i'm just flat tired of is people bashing on us because of our choice of hobby and entertainment. sure, i/we might be wrong (and i have been before, sometimes with distressing regularity), but i do believe that i/we have a choice, and for whatever reasons, we choose the way we do.
small faires are attractive, and had i loads of time; a new, big, reliable car; lots of nifty props & camping gear and a husband whose job kept him in the country more than out (ah, but shopping for silk in seoul was wonderful, and paris in the summer is nothing to give up easily); and a child who didn't object to every weekend being spent out of town and away from her friends, i'd probably give the small faires a go. as it is, i listen to thena's stories eagerly & plan to go someday. until then, it's RPFN & the myriad joys (& aggrivations) it brings. it's an entirely different experience, that's for sure!
see you there - what costume niftiness do you have planned for this year? i've got two, maybe three pairs of new sleeves and two new foreparts online. wait'll you see the fabric i found in paris! come by New Glade (at last! Court is where we belong - at the Center of the Universe! see - everything does revolve around us!) & say hi!
hugs, lea bob aka Catherine Hastings, Countess of Huntingdon RPFN
Full Thread: https://groups.google.com/forum/#!msg/alt.fairs.renaissance/wUgKw_wa9sI/vKPq6SOns1wJ
Submitted April 14, 2019 at 10:58PM by nachoha http://bit.ly/2In8LCW
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